Spades Slick
Caldari Rookies Academy Elite The Compass
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Posted - 2010.07.06 17:02:00 -
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Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow Much of the argument against removing learning skills boils down to this: "when I was a noob, I had to **** a lot of **** to get my crack, and the new b*****s should have to do the same thing."
You deem yourself a representative, and then you put out generalized garbage like this? You couldn't more clearly be cementing yourself on the anti-learning side, and have thrown objectivity out the window.
A small number of pro-learning people hold the above position, yes, but most support the skills because they add a strategy to the game. Cry all you want, but learning skills at 5/5 IS NOT NORMAL. Everyone anti-learning says "WELL IF YOU WANT TO PLAY THE GAME THEN THEY'RE PRETTY MUCH MANDATORY." That's where most of the problem lies; new players are told by all these bitter old vets (who are bitter because they also convinced themselves that they had to max learning skills, NOT because of the 'back in my day' syndrome you suggest) that the ONLY way to play EVE is to train learning skills right away; and then of course, the anti crowd exaggerates this and says "Yeah staring at a bar isn't my idea of fun." You know WHY tier 2 learning books are so expensive? Because they were only ever meant to be attained after a while of playing (you know, when you could make that kind of money), and added in to your training regimen to make all those rank 10+ skills go that much easier to reach. The net lost time from not doing tier 2 skills for, say, a month or so is within the realm of a few hours. Don't believe me? I put together a one-month plan for a Minmatar newbie, with basic and standard certs mixed and training up to Battlecruiser. Time before learning skills? 17 days. Time after learning skills? 12 days. Time after removing tier 2 learning skills EVEMon told me to put in? 12.5 days.
That's 12 hours' difference.
Now, while many people would min/max and say "THAT MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE!!!1!1", consider the fact that I haven't yet done neural remapping to see how I could make it better still, nor will most new players have learning skills tier 2 purchasable. And why should they? Nor are they required to sit in a station all day (detractors' claims to the contrary) -- takes all of one hour each to put some points into basic skills, and then the new players can go do tutorials while their skills level up, make enough to buy learning books, BUY learning books (tier 1), go get them, add them to the queue, and do it strategically -- "okay, I wanna grind my core competency first, so I'll do intelligence"; "I want to be able to shoot stuff, so I'll get my perception and will skills up; then I can jump right into ship skilling afterwards."; and yes, even "I want to make sure I have my learning skills, so I'll 2 days just letting them level up (note: how long the learning skills EVEMon recommended would take alone) and then start other stuff."
What the anti crowd always seems to neglect (or conveniently forget) is that there is a LOT of waiting for a new player. I know that, while to players who have been playing for a while it isn't a long time, the day and a half or two days or whatever that Frigate IV took when I trained it two months ago seemed to take forever. And you know what, looking back, I'm 100% okay with that, because that's a drop in the bucket compared to the rank 8s that I'm eying right now. The anti-learning people aren't; they simply want to minimize the wait, not because of any real concern for the new players (or if there is, it's in a small number of their population), but because they just want more, faster.
Trebor, while I appreciate you expressing your interest in serving your CSM duties, I ask that you take a good hard look at this and other threads where debate has arisen, and step back from any personal feelings you have. Consider the arguments coming from my, umm, colleagues and I. Think about whether you're serving the majority, or just the most vocal side.
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